February 26, 2004
Birdhouse Interview Series with Jeff Luhnow
Part Two: Success, Run like a Business and Relationships
By Brian Walton
This is the second in a series of four interview segments with Jeff Luhnow, Vice President of Baseball Development for the St. Louis Cardinals. Luhnow offers depth and insight into how a successful organization is undergoing significant change in an effort to retake baseball’s summit. Parts Three and Four will run each of the next two days.
Part One: The Job and Fantasy Baseball
Today: Success, Run like a Business and Relationships
Part Three: Systems and the Advisory Council
Part Four: Player Evaluation
BW: Jeff, how will your success in this new endeavor ultimately be measured?
JL: That’s a good question. One of the things that I am pushing hard to do across the entire front office is put measurements of success in, in all areas, from scouting, how we do in the amateur draft. Let’s take a look back and see how we have done. How have we done in international scouting? Let’s take a look back and see how we’ve done and develop benchmarks versus other teams and really look at the entire operation as a business. I’ve run successful businesses in the past, even businesses where results aren’t known for years later. There are ways to develop benchmarks; there are ways to develop measurements, to sort of give yourself a report card on an ongoing basis. That is how were going to operate internally.
BW: How about externally?
JL: Now, externally, to the fans, and to the media, it’s all going to come down to how many pennants we win, and whether or not we can help the Cardinals get back to where they belong, which is World Series rings in the next couple of years. That is how I ultimately am going to measure our success. There’s a lot of variables that go in to that, there is a lot of luck that will go into that.
BW: Looking back and learning from the mistakes of the past, as well is looking forward, is something that is commonplace in the business world, but not traditionally done in baseball organizations, is it?
JL: Exactly. Everybody knows that similar to an offensive player stepping up to the plate, you’re going to fail 70% of the time, if you’re a good player. The same thing really applies to a front office. You’re going to make your mistakes along the way. There is no front office that you can look at and say they have a perfect record. Even the ones that are being held up in high esteem, the Oaklands and some of the other front offices, they’ve made their fair share of mistakes. You need to understand there is a lot of luck involved and there’s a lot of other factors, external factors. But, if you choose to ignore looking back, choose to ignore to evaluate yourself and how you’re doing, you’re never going to improve.
BW: So, you’re looking at this like a business?
JL: The baseball side of baseball, and when I say baseball, I mean there really is a business side of baseball, which is all about marketing and ticket sales and all of that. And, there is a baseball side, which is managing payrolls and managing the teams and development and scouting. That is, at the end of the day, a business. You have a certain amount of resources and you have an objective function, which is to win, given those resources. And there’s lots of tools from the business world and a lots of technologies that you can apply that can help you be more effective And that’s really, at the end of the day, what this baseball development group that I am leading with the Cardinals is intended to do. That is, to build those capabilities and to build upon the capabilities that are there. Now, clearly, the team is run by people that have a lot of business experience and a lot of baseball experience. So, there are a lot of things that have been successful over time. It’s really to complement what is in place today.
BW: Now, you’ve been in the job for a few months, how are the relationships working? How do the traditional baseball people view you and your new role?
JL: I’ve been surprised at how open-minded people have been. And I think the reason that I have seen that open-mindedness is everybody has same objective in mind, which is, to win; to bring a championship back to St. Louis. Everybody from Walt Jocketty; he includes me in all player decisions, from minor league free agents to who we are going to sign during the Winter Meetings. I actually went to the Winter Meetings, was there the entire time; to even contract discussions over who we are going to sign to long-term deals and so forth So, from the decision-makers standpoint, I have been very involved and have access to the people that are driving the bus, if you will, and been able to share my point of view. Now, granted, I’ve only been there for six months. I don’t quite have the experience that a lot of people have. Walt obviously has a tremendous amount of experience and a successful track record. It’s one input that he uses to make his decisions. Over time, hopefully, as I establish more credibility, then we will continue to work together as a team going forward.
BW: How about with the rest of the organization?
JL: We had our scouts here about a month ago and I would say the initial reaction from the scouts when they hear about something like this happening, is they don’t understand it and there could be some fear involved. Fear of the unknown. I am sure the scouts in the Dodger organization at this very moment are fearful and questioning what the future looks like. That’s natural and that happens in any organization that is undergoing change. I sat down with the scouts and explained to them what we’re here to do. And I think it was after they understood that we are here to help them do their jobs better and we’re here to help the Cardinals win, there was sort of like a sigh of relief.
BW: What did you share with them?
JL: For example, we showed them different tools that we might able to use to help them identify which players to go see. We have a limited number of scouts and a tremendous number of amateur players out there that we would like to see. How do you do that initial filtering to determine which ones to go see? I can’t tell you whether a high school player in Mission Hills, San Diego, is any better than a high school player that has equivalent stats in upstate New York. People have to see them. It’s tough. The more we can help them screen ahead of time and have better information to determine which players to go see, they can maybe focus on those players a little bit more and not have to rely on just one game. It is inherently dangerous to make decisions based off of four at-bats or six innings pitched. And we all know that. If you’re trying to cover too much ground, you spread yourself too thin, and then you’ve got to rely on impressions of what you saw in just one occurrence. And we’d like to not have to make decisions with that limited number of facts.
BW: Clearly, scouts are still needed…
JL: You can never replace seeing a player, especially if you’re a scout that has a lot of experience, and you’ve seen a lot of kids come up and you know what it takes for a kid to make it to the major leagues, not only physically, but mentally. There is no statistics in the world that are going to tell you, especially at the high school level, where statistics are very unreliable, or at college, where they are a little more reliable, whether or not the kid has the makeup or even the raw talent to make it to the major leagues. That’s something that you need to rely on scouts for. Scouting is never going to go away. It’s always going to be a critical part, but it will evolve. It will evolve to incorporate and use more tools that are available.
